Hedging real estate with gold?
Dustin Heiner is the founder of Master Passive Income, Real Estate Wealth Builders Conference (REWBCON) and Successfully Unemployed. He is a real estate investor who was able to make enough passive income from his business to quit his job when he was 37 years old. Dustin and Dickson discuss real estate investing, the similarities with precious metals passive income, and how to think about price appreciation and income opportunities in the hard assets.
Additional Resources
Join us at REWBCON: https://rewbcon.com/
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Transcript:
Dickson Buchanan:
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Monetary Metals YouTube channel. My name is Dickson Buchanon. I’m the Vice President of Marketing for Monetary Metals, and I am joined today with a very special guest, Dustin Heiner. Dustin is a real estate expert and also a client of Monetary Metals, and we’re very glad to have him on the show today to talk about his experience becoming a real estate investor and also his experience experience investing in precious metals and how he came to join the Monetary Metals as a client. So, Dustin, why don’t you start by just telling your story? You’ve got a really interesting story. Tell us how you became successfully unemployed.
Dustin Heiner:
Yeah, yeah. Thanks, Dickon, for having me on. I absolutely love being successfully unemployed. And when I say that, that means I found a way to provide for myself and my family without working that dead-end JOB, that just overbroke job. And so with that, it started with real estate investing. But I also love how you and I connected because of gold and silver. So I love owning tangible things, things that I could hold on to. Crypto, I can’t really hold on to. Physically. Gold, silver, guns, ammo, that’s commodity. People buy those and sell those. Real estate, too, is amazing for asset preservation, just like gold and silver, but you also make cash flow, just like with monetary metals. So I love investing with monetary metals.
Dickson Buchanan:
I do want to transition to real estate as an asset class. Here in the United States, not just the United States, but even across the world, real estate has been a primary wealth building vehicle for so many people. You can get into a bunch of There’s a lot of different reasons as to why that is, the advent of mortgages, the 30-year mortgages. Certainly, there’s a lot of financial incentives that have propelled that asset class to where it is today. But we’ll set those aside for the moment. Let’s just stick to your take on real estate as an asset class. Why do you like it? What do you look for when you’re buying a property? You You can take us back to those early years, but even today, I’d love to hear, what is it about real estate that is attractive to you from a wealth building standpoint?
Dustin Heiner:
When you’re investing in real estate, it’s not about the property. It’s not about how much money you can rent it for and all that stuff. The first thing that we have to do is build the business. I’ll give you a quick example of what that looks like. If you’re going to start a convenience store, you know, convenience store, candy bar, soda machines, all that stuff. Well, you’re not We’re going to sign a lease on a location, open the doors, and set a box of candy bars in on the ground. You wouldn’t do that. You go out of business in 2 seconds. But what you would do is you would build the business, get the gondoles, do the shoving in, and set all the candy bars go on, the countertops, cold storage, Bank accounts, cash registers, insurance, employees, everything in the business before you buy any inventory. Same thing with real estate investing. We build the entire business, and then our properties, that is our inventory that we put into the business. The gurus tell you the opposite. They say, buy the property and then figure everything out, which is the wrong way to do it.
The right way is to actually build the business, find the right property managers, contractors, plumbers, roofers, home inspectors, insurance agents, mortgage brokers, realtors, all these people that are experts on the ground. See, we invest. Master passive income is my company where I invest everywhere and I teach people how to invest, but we invest all over the country. In fact, I invest in Arizona, Ohio, Texas, Texas and Missouri. I invest in all these different states, but I hire the experts in these areas. So when you’re thinking about… Actually, let me give you one more thing. So in building the business, you’re going to have the experts first. The other second part of teaching you how to drive before you get a keys of Ferrari is we make money every single month. Let’s give you an example. If you’re going to buy a candy bar for a dollar and you can sell it for $2, well, that’s the best way to do it. Let me say it this way. If you can buy it for $2 and sell it for a dollar, would you start that business? No, you wouldn’t because you’d be losing money, right? You’re losing a dollar every single time.
With real estate investing, some people, it’s sad, but they teach, just invest for appreciation. That’s not the way we invest. We invest for cash flow every single month. Now, here’s the better way to explain it. Instead of buying an accounting bar for $2, selling it for a dollar, losing money, why would you do that? You would not. Same thing with real estate investing. If you can buy a candy bar for 50 cents and then sell it for a dollar, and you knew without a shadow, without you can do it all day, every day, you’re like, Why would I not just buy as many candy bars and sell as many as possible? Now, here’s the great thing about it. That’s what we do. So monthly, we make money every single month. But the other thing on top of that, what if you’d even have the 50 cents to buy the candy bar? Well, what if it costs you 25 cents to borrow 50 cents, then you’re out of pocket 75 cents, and then you can sell the candy bar for a dollar, then you’re making 25 cents every single time you sell the You look for as much money you can borrow.
That’s what we do with real estate investing. We build a business first, number one. Number two, we hire the experts in the area that’s going to run the business. They’re experts. Zillow is not an expert. Red Fin, truly, they’re not experts. There’s databases. Hire people on the ground. Then we do not buy a property unless we make money in passive income every single month, which is the out of all your expenses, and then you deduct that from your rent, and that is your passive income. And my suggestion, a minimum of $250. I’ve been investing since 2006. I have 30 plus properties now. Most of them are paid off free and clear, which is a blessing. But 250 was a minimum back then. Now I’m getting five, six, seven, $800 a month in passive income or more from every single one of these properties.
Dickson Buchanan:
How did you get How did you get into gold and silver? What’s the genesis story there? Was that before investing in real estate? Was that after? Tell us that. Tell us how you got into that.
Dustin Heiner:
Yeah, it was definitely after. I love preserving my wealth for my future generations. In fact, the 30 plus properties at home, the hotels that I own everything, I’m literally going to give these properties to my kids. So it’s generational wealth. Same thing with my gold and silver. I personally don’t want to buy and sell gold. I buy here and then sell here. I’m not doing it for appreciation.
Dickson Buchanan:
It’s a long term permanent allocation in the portfolio.
Dustin Heiner:
Preserving my value of the money that I worked hard to earn, to make. Earning is where you work in active income. Making is when you’re getting passive income from the businesses. But so I love that I preserved my assets, preserved my wealth in gold. So real estate is where I make my money, and then that’s where I keep my money. But at the same time, I know that you Eventually, if everything goes really, really bad and civil war, whatever, if everything goes really horribly, I can’t eat my house. If nobody wants to rent it, if literally money stops everything, then I can’t eat it. But But gold and silver, I can trade my gold into silver. I can use my silver to buy bread. I want to make sure that, and I’m not the big fan of the word diversification, and I like what Warren Buffet said, Only people that diversify are the ones that don’t know what they’re doing. I know Real estate. I know guns and ammo, and I know gold and silver. Those are the ones that I do. But at the same time, I didn’t know that much about gold and silver.
Dustin Heiner:
I just need to know that that is the value. That is the value. Money is nothing. Dollars is nothing. It’s fiat. It’s It’s just pretend money. When it’s value, gold and silver is value. So real estate is where I make my money. Gold and silver is where I put a part of my assets inside there to preserve it for future generations.
Dickson Buchanan:
I don’t have anything to add to that because I think That’s pretty much it.
Dustin Heiner:
I’ll add one thing. So I’m the type that I own gold, obviously gold and silver. But if I’m going to hold it, I do not want to store it at a place and just pay storage fees and just have them and just trust that they’re going to do it. When I started talking to you, I was really skeptical. I asked a lot of questions when you and I first started talking because I owned some gold and silver. I was like, Why would I give it to you and not have physical… I can’t just go in my safe and grab it because I love having… I can physically get it. Then as you and I are talking, you’re like, Okay, well, Dustin, how about this? Not 100% of your gold. Don’t put all your gold here. You want to make sure because you want to make sure you have access to it But it’s a portion of your allocation of gold and silver and that you’re also making money and passive income. And then when you said that, I was like, light bulb, I love passive income. In fact, my podcast is Master Passive Income. When I bought one property, I made money every single month.
I didn’t do anything else. I felt like I’d mastered passive income. So I would try to help other people to master passive income, teach them to do it. But with that, when you said passive income and gold, I was like, this sounds like a good idea. So that worked out really well for me.
Dickson Buchanan:
That’s great. Yeah. It’s funny because when I think about you and how we met, and even when I think about real estate, I feel like there’s a lot of similarities with what we’re doing at Monetary Metals to what your cookie cutter real estate investment is like. You got a hard asset, something you physically own. It’s not in a stock market. It’s not financialized. Sure, you might have a mortgage, but it’s much more I guess, approachable for your your average investor. And it’s something you own outright. You can go touch it, you can go visit it. And you get two things, primarily. I know you mentioned six. But if we were to essentialize or boil it down, price appreciation and income. And for a long time, gold was just the price appreciation part, which is really just That’s another way of saying the dollar losing value. The dollar was defined in a specific way to gold. Then there were lots of political shenanigans that got us to where we are today. Now, gold, literally, as of this week, as of this recording, is making new all-time highs, which is the same as saying the dollar’s making all-time lows against gold.
But one downside to real estate is that cash flow you’re earning. You’re earning in a fiat currency that loses value. The ability to earn passive income in gold, in an asset that’s inflation proof, that maintains and increases in value over time. Obviously, I think it’s a game changer. I’m working for the company. But I think-It totally is.
Dustin Heiner:
I’ll quickly add to it. It’s literally storing the value of your hard earned money or what you put out. And it’s storing it because that is the value. When you think of, well, how much is it worth? No, no, no. Gold is what everything is worth. So everything is based off of gold.
Dickson Buchanan:
It’s the standard. It’s the measurement.
Dustin Heiner:
And it’s for the history of the world. I read the Bible multiple times a day. As I read the Bible, literally gold and silver is it. That is it. If you go to the history of the world, and here’s the great thing, people say, Well, how are you going to buy red with silver? I’m like, There has always, also for the history of the world, been money changers. In fact, Jesus turned over tables in a dog. They were a money changer. There will always be money changers. So for me, that is the value, not just the store value. The value is the gold and silver. Now, what I suggest for anybody listening this, and this is what I do, is every month just allocate just a little bit more money into gold and silver assets that’s going to be soffed away. For me, worst case scenario, if I need the money to feed for my family, I could sell it and feed my family. Best case scenario, I just give it to my kids 30 years from now, when my kids are my age, my goodness, I have no idea. It’s going to be worth a lot more than it is now.
Dickson Buchanan:
Yeah, absolutely. I feel like that’s something that used to be so common place, so normal in the previous generations. But today, there’s the Yolo. You only live once. There’s just this idea of saving for the future, not even just the future generations, but just saving for your own future, for retirement has become so much more difficult. And also not just more difficult, it’s out of fashion. It’s unpopular, right?
Dustin Heiner:
Live on credit. It’s live on credit, get instant gratification. What I’m teaching my kids and help Helping people as best I can through the podcast, YouTube, all that stuff is delayed gratification. What we do is it’s hard work to invest in real estate. It’s not easy. If it was easy, everybody would do it. But what we do is we have delayed gratification, putting off for the future so many better things than what we can get right now.
Dickson Buchanan:
That’s right. Saving, my favorite definition of saving is foregoing consumption today in favor of consumption in the future. Absolutely. That’s how it Well, we’re almost out of time. I want to just very briefly going back to because there’s there’s something I want to revisit that I think is really important about what you said about when you first heard of Monetary Metals and how you became a client, which was, you don’t have to put all your gold and silver into Monetary Metals. That’s something I’ve said to you. That’s something I’ve said to many, many clients before. Put us back in your mindset there. What was it that got you over that? Because you’re right. It’s new, this idea of earning interest on gold. Most people, when they hear it, it’s the first time they’ve ever heard it. So help whoever is going to listen to this video understand your thought process around that and how you got comfortable being a client?
Dustin Heiner:
I asked you so many questions. I asked you so many questions that I can’t even remember all of them. There were so many because as we were talking, and I’ve done as best I can to try to educate myself on gold and silver and assets and all that stuff and what could happen, what can’t happen, all that stuff. A biggest thing for me was knowing that I would get a return and not I do not lose my money. I teach my students how to actually get other people to invest in their real estate deals. Earlier on, I said I’ve even bought properties with none of my own money, which is infinite return, which is great, which I teach my students. Same thing with what I teach my students, when they’re trying to get other people to invest in, private money lenders and family, friends and family, the first thing that every person who wants to make money on their money is, it’s not how much money they’ll make. It’s, will I lose my money? That’s the first. They don’t want to lose money.
Dickson Buchanan:
Return of principle first before return on principle.
Dustin Heiner:
Absolutely. I don’t want to lose my money. That’s number one. Will I ever lose my money? Will I ever be concerned about that? You help me dissuade those fears because… Really good. So everybody, if you’re listening to this, you need those questions, the answer, talk to Dickson, talk to his team over there. Terrific. He really helped me. Everybody else there helped me out a lot. So number one, I was much more comfortable after hearing everything you shared. You have your own facility. You have everything. You got everything taken care of. So that’s number one. But then number two, how I will make a return, not just how much return, but how it is.
Dickson Buchanan:
Mechanics. Yeah, how it works.
Dustin Heiner:
Exactly. Because I don’t You don’t want to be in a Ponzi scheme where you need to keep turning in and out. I didn’t want that. I wanted to learn the business model. And when I learned both of those, that my gold is going to be protected, number one. Number two, I’m going to be able to make a return because of the business that you guys have. I really like this. Okay, it makes a lot of sense. It makes a lot of sense that this jewelry maker needs gold, but they don’t want to fork out, let’s say, $800,000 or millions of dollars just to buy the gold to make it. That’s brilliant. They would pay out… I would pay interest just so I didn’t have to have all that capital outlaid. So I saw the business model concerned about my goal being lost, check, done. Didn’t even worry about that. And then making money in the business. Yes, all that combined.
Dickson Buchanan:
Beautiful. Well, We met at a conference, and we’re about to meet again at another conference, but not just any conference. It’s your conference. It’s your real estate conference. Tell us a little bit about it. I think it’s beginning next week. What’s Rubicon? What’s Give us the pitch. Why should someone show up at Rubicon next week?
Dustin Heiner:
My goodness. So my conference is called the Real Estate Wealth Builders conference, and it’s different, I believe, than any other real estate investor conference out there. And here’s the main big difference. There’s two. The first one is it’s a community of people. It’s just my students, my friends, my other real estate investing podcasters, influencers, and have real students. It’s a community of people coming together. But because of that, this is the biggest difference. Most real estate real estate investor conferences, it’s hype and sales pitch from the stage, and they say, run to the back, just like I got started. Every time, if you go to any real estate investor conference, it’s going to be this. It literally will. You might get one or two. They’re not. But mine was purposefully like this because they’re already my students, they’re already our audience. They already want to work with us. So there’s none of that. It’s a no sales pitch conference. So it’s a real estate wealth business conference. Three days. It’s an annual conference this year. It’s in St. Louis. We want you to come. If you use the promo code podcast, we’ll give you 10% off of your pass.
But it’s so amazing. It’s three days of 50 plus of my friends, Dickon, you’re going to be speaking there as well. All of us investors coming together to teach, not to sell, to educate, to teach, to have fun, to party together. It’s such an amazing event where it’s all like-minded investors coming together. This is our third year doing it. We’re going to have it annually, but it’s all about the investor, the individual. So you listening to watching this, teaching you about how to take care of your assets, how to buy real estate, how having gold and silver is a great part of your portfolio. So the Real Estate Wealth Billings Conference, if you go to REWBCON, it’s the abbreviation of the Real Estate Wealth Billings Conference. Rewbcon.Com. And use a promo podcast. We’ll give you 10% off your pass. Yeah, so the conference is amazing for you. In fact, here’s the reason why I do this, Dickon. I make my money through real estate, and I have extra time. And I started I’m realizing I enjoyed teaching people how to invest. Then with that, I get so much more fulfillment in life.
When I bought my first property, it was an accomplishment, but I didn’t really feel fulfilled. When I quit my job, it was an accomplishment, but I didn’t feel fulfilled. I felt like I had to keep doing it. When I started teaching people, just like you teach people how to invest in gold, when I got my first student to buy their first property, I felt fulfilled. I helped another human being get something that they really, really want. Now, almost thousands of students now I’ve now made it my goal to help 1 million people to invest in real estate. My podcast for free, my YouTube channel for free. Obviously, come to conferences, you have to pay for the hotel, so you got to pay for your ticket. But everything is just given away for you. We want you to invest in real estate. That’s my whole goal, just to give out as much. Because I found, Dickson, that serving more people in life makes their lives better and makes my life better. So I just figure out more ways to serve more people.
Dickson Buchanan:
Amen. Amen. That’s beautiful. It’s a It’s been a beautiful vision. And I just want to thank you so much for coming on our channel. This has been a really fun conversation. We actually were able to cover everything that I wanted to cover, which is Pretty amazing because usually we don’t. We run out of time. So I appreciate.
Dustin Heiner:
I talk fast.
Dickson Buchanan:
I appreciate you coming on. We will drop the links that Dustin mentioned in the description. So be sure to check out REWBCON if that’s of interest to you. Dustin, again, just want to thank you for your time. Thank you for being a client of Monetary Metals, and I look forward to seeing you next week.
Dustin Heiner:
Awesome, Dickson. Thanks a lot, buddy.
Additional Resources for Earning Interest in Gold
If you’d like to learn more about how to earn interest on gold with Monetary Metals, check out the following resources:
In this paper, we look at how conventional gold holdings stack up to Monetary Metals Investments, which offer a Yield on Gold, Paid in Gold®. We compare retail coins, vault storage, the popular ETF – GLD, and mining stocks against Monetary Metals’ True Gold Leases.
The Case for Gold Yield in Investment Portfolios
Adding gold to a diversified portfolio of assets reduces volatility and increases returns. But how much and what about the ongoing costs? What changes when gold pays a yield? This paper answers those questions using data going back to 1972.
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